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Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/19 15:49Hello. It's my first time in this site. I've recently purchased a used Francis Francis X1 espresso machine through ebay. When I made a shot of espresso, I was very disappointed with the shot performance of the machine. First of all, the espresso came out watery and there were hardly any crema on top. In fact the crema was less than a mm. thick. Which dissipates in less than a few minutes. I used the ground coffee portafilter with a single shot filter basket. Secondly, I also noticed that there isn't any pressure on the portafilter. I notice that after I made a shot, and I quickly open up the portafilter handle, there's no air escaping or coffee exploding all over the place. I'm not sure if the machine is performing correctly. Is there anybody in here who had similar experiences with this machine? Is there a trick to making a descent espresso shot out of this machine? Or have I just purchased an expensive door stopper?
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dave
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/20 01:32Welcome to CoffeeCrew, X1!
A few basic questions:
1. How long did you heat up the machine?
2. How fresh is your coffee?
3. How much coffee did you use?
4. Did you tamp? Did you distribute the coffee evenly before tamping?
5. How long did the extraction take (typically something close to 25-28 seconds)?
6. How many attempts have you made beyond this one try, and have you modified things like the amount of coffee and the fineness of the grind?
D
Post edited by: dave, at: 2006/03/20 01:33Dave is an Ottawa resident and Coffee Expert
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X1 man
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/20 04:51Hello Dave. Thanks for the quick response. As for the answer to your questions, I preheated the machine about half an hour, maybe more. I used about 1 scoop (1/4 oz.) of Lavaza crema espresso coffee right out of the packet. I distributed the coffee evenly in the filter and then tamped it hard. I did extract it for about 25 seconds or more. I had to use a cappucino cup because the espresso cup was just too small for the volume of coffee that was coming out. I tried 10 -12 times trying to extract a descent espresso but so far only one modest shot came out. I put just slightly over 1/4 oz. of coffee. I tried putting more until it was overflowing. But that shot came out weak. I tried tamping with less pressure then with more pressure, it was all in vain. As for modifying the fineness of the grind, well I don't own any coffee grinder. I really don't have the time to grind my own coffee, I just buy those preground coffee. My other espresso machine, a Saeco Via Vento, whick I've also bought on ebay for way less than Francis Francis, performed much better than this piece of junk. Anyway, thanks in advance.
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dave
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/20 07:29X1 man wrote: the espresso cup was just too small for the volume of coffee that was coming out ... I put just slightly over 1/4 oz. of coffee. I tried putting more until it was overflowing. But that shot came out weak.
Given how much liquid is coming out, your pump is likely fine.
Your most likely problem is that the coffee is too coarse. Believe it or not, prepackaged "espresso" coffee is quite often much too coarse for pump-powered espresso machines. It is more suitable for moka pots or steam machines. It is almost never fresh, as well. The end result is that your Francis Francis is just blowing through the coffee and not achieving sufficient pressure to extract it properly.
I have no experience with the Francis Francis, but 7g of coffee is quite possibly not enough for a single. It may be the so-called rule of thumb, but it really depends on the basket size, the coffee grind, and the coffee used. My double basket for the Gaggia requires closer to 16-17g vs. 14g for a double. Many people also find it more difficult to pull a successful single vs. a double, so you may prefer practicing with doubles assuming you have the double basket.
What you want to shoot for is about an ounce of espresso volume for a single, or about 2 ounces for a double (less is ok if you prefer shorter shots), both pulled in a window of 25-28 seconds. If you have too much volume and thin coffee, you most likely need to grind finer and/or use more coffee. If nothing much comes out for a while and then suddenly it starts gushing out, you may have too much coffee or possibly coffee that is too fine (not in your case), and the pressure ramps up until finally it breaks a hole through the puck.
Try this with the double basket, if you have one (the single basket usually requires less coffee than this method):
Fill it to overflowing with coffee, then take a flat edge and swipe off the excess above the rim. Then take your tamper and tamp straight down, keeping your tamp level. This is often about the right amount of coffee.
You test your coffee level in either basket by: i. filling basket, distributing the coffee evenly, and tamping ii. locking the portafilter into the grouphead --- DON'T start the pump --- iii. remove the portafilter right away (still dry) iv. verify that you do see: a slight impression from the center screw of the shower screen (assuming that it sticks out) v. and DO NOT see: any impression or scraping of the puck surface, from contact with the screen or the edge of the plate holding the screen. vi. after pulling the shot, a very soupy puck often indicates that you used too little coffee. It might be wet on the top if not left to dry off for a few minutes, but the puck should be reasonably cohesive.
Figure out the right amount of coffee to achieve this, and then figure out the correct grind to achieve a proper shot volume (and taste) in your 25-28 seconds. The grind is usually much finer than table sugar, but still with a visible granularity and not like powder.
Changing your tamp weight is unlikely to make much of a difference here. Try to keep it consistent at a weight that is comfortable to you (<=30 lbs), and work more on achieving the correct dose of coffee and an even distribution of coffee in the basket.
The hard reality is that you really do need a good grinder for good espresso. It is possible to get good results by working with a local roaster to grind your coffee, but this requires: a. freshly roasted coffee, bought frequently b. an adequate grinder with MANY settings in the espresso range (usually not a BUNN, but you could try it once) c. sufficient experimentation to know what grind works best, and consideration for the fact that this can vary between roasts and changing humidity conditions - a quality roaster helps, here.
You absolutely need to grind your coffee using a burr grinder, not a blade grinder. If buying a grinder, avoid buying a grinder for less than $100-150 because these usually have fake/dull burrs, produce a lot of very fine particles and an uneven grind distribution, often will not grind finely enough, and wear out quickly. One of the cheapest acceptable grinders that I know of is the Maximo sold by Vanelli's (same as La Pavoni PGC grinder mechanism, iirc).
Do you have any local roasters nearby, or a cafe that might grind coffee for you using their own espresso grinder (you may be stuck using their grind for this method, which may or may not work for you)?
Keep us posted!Dave is an Ottawa resident and Coffee Expert
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X1 man
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/20 15:23Thank you very much for the very detailed tips. I've tried filling the filter basket up to the rim but I had trouble fitting it into the grouphead. As for using the double shot filter, lol...... that's another problem. You see when I first bought the machine on ebay, it didn't come with any filters at all. All it had was the portafilter handle for ground coffee. I had to order the 2 filters from Francis Francis in Illinois. To my surprise the filters didn't fit the handle correctly. There was a few mm. of space but it's enough to cause problems in fitting it into the grouphead. I've made some modifications on the handle so now I can fit the single filter but the double filter still won't fit. But I have a friend who can help me with this problem. As soon as he can rectify this problem, I'll try to use the brewing/tamping method you've suggested using the double filter. I will try grinding a finer grain coffee at my local cafe see it that will work also. Again thank you very much for the ideas. Who knew making a shot would require this much work?!!!! Lol. This better be worth it in the end.
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dave
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/21 01:10Your single basket can't be filled to the rim. You have to underfill these, so they take a bit more practice to get the dosing right.
You can still follow the procedure to test your fill level, by dosing, tamping, and then temporarily locking in the portafilter. You just have to start with a bit less coffee in order to get the level right.
As for baskets not fitting, I am not familiar enough with the FF models to know the differences between them ... normally you'd like the basket to fit the handle and not the other way around You're not trimming your portafilter, are you?
Are the baskets too tall or too wide? A very small gap between the rim of the filter basket and the portafilter is normal (mine is >1mm, I think). If your portafilter doesn't lock in fully with an empty basket then, yeah, I guess you have a problem.
DDave is an Ottawa resident and Coffee Expert
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X1 man
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/21 14:29Hello again Dave. Yes, the filter's a little too wide at the top of the rim. The rim has a slight curvature as it reaches the top. This curve is just enough to cause the fitting problem on the grouphead even when the filter basket's empty. My guess is it's just one of those manufacturing defects. Like I said, I'll let my friend fix this problem later. As for the fineness of the grind of coffee, I went to a cafe this afternoon and bought a freshly ground coffee. I tested it on the FF and this time I have the opposite problem. Nothing's coming out of the machine. Just little droplets of coffee. It's not that thick either. There are some signs of crema trying to form. But nothing's coming out. I went over the extraction time you suggested. I tried fiddling with the tamping pressure, from hard to light to no pressure at all. Nothing seems to work. I even put less that a 1/4 oz. of coffee. But it's still no use. Now I see what the problem is. It's just finding the right amount of grind.
X 1 man
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Scoobydoo
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/03/22 00:50sounds like the grind maybe too fine to let the water through it.
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gil
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/04/02 05:27hi,
i own an X1 and understand some of this frustration.
i think the main problem here is that there is a mismatch between the ground basket and the portafilter.
the X1 has 2 versions . the newer one has a MUCH better portafilter (one that actually pours the coffee evenly..) and if i remember correctly, it is wider in diameter than the older one.... and bigger in volume, so you probabaly need to get the filters that match the older version.
don't give up, in a few moths time and some bucks spent, you will get your coffee right...
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ROB
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Re:Disappointed with Francis Francis - 2006/04/03 10:12Theres only one thing to say about the Francis, it's a Lemon. I belong to an Italian Family and we try to make about 30 cups in over several hours to get one decent drink. What rubbish, the best thing to do is to leave it on the sideboard and watch it rust. thanks
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