Welcome to the CoffeeCrew forum for registered users. - feel free to make yourself at home. This forum is dedicated to coffee and espresso based issues.
Forum spammers, scam artists, confidence artists, crooks and obvious commercial shilling is discouraged. Violation of this one simple rule will result in you and your immediate geographical region being banned from the site so do not post ads here! Capiche?
The coffeecrew guestbook and forum has been alive for more than 10 years! Please consider it your one-stop resource for finding out about all things coffee, espresso, specialty coffee and all associated gear and equipment.
We welcome long posts - there is no word limit in fact. Keep in mind that you can only type for 15 to 20 minutes in the forum-post submit window (session timeout)- so consider composing your posts or responses in a text editor - then cut and paste! Thank you and enjoy the forums!
Are 3-ways worth it? - 2006/10/18 07:56I am currently in the process of obsessing over the purchase of my first real semi-auto espresso maker.
Characteristics that are no-brainers:
1. If you want a machine with the ability to produce near commercial quality espresso, get one with a commercial size portafilter (58 mm). Not that good espresso can't be made with smaller proprietary versions (at least from what I've read), but in my mind, going with a full-size is just a way of controlling one more of the "thousands" of variables that need to be agonized over when attempting to make the perfect shot.
2. Make sure it has a good strong pump (15 barr or more)
3. Make sure the internal water lines/boilers are of good quality/heavy gauge construction for reliability and heat retainment.
Things that are less obvious:
1. Are metal bodies are good for heat consistency (and looks) - but how much does this really effect the product?
2. Boiler size/material vs heating element size/wattage: Obviously a bigger boiler with a more powerful heating element is preferred, but this is not always important for home use. Plus, when comparing machines like Miss Silvia and Gaggias, the recharge time vs initial capacity are more a matter of personal preference than anything else - though for me, the Silvia seems to get the nod, if only because the greater boiler size means more steaming capacity - plus the Silvia seems to have a better wand...
3. ?
But getting back on topic: Are 3-ways really worth it?
It seems to me, at least when looking at the Gaggia line, that the difference between <$400 and >$400 machines is the inclusion of the 3-way solenoid valve. I have read that this also release of pressure at the head group and allows the 'puck' to be discarder more neatly. But is this really worth the extra $100 or more (IE difference between Gaggia Baby and Gaggia Coffee).
| | Forum posting/replies are available to registered users.
dave
Admin Admin
Posts: 195
Karma: 42
Re:Are 3-ways worth it? - 2006/10/18 09:43Dave,
Forgive me for not touching on your entire post, but I have time to mention two things:
1) Most machines use pretty much the same pump, and the typical extraction pressure that you are looking for in a standard double shot is closer to 9 bar. The pressure created by a vibe pump is inversely proportional to the flow rate, and thus depends on the resistance provided by the coffee puck. The onus is thus more on the user in properly preparing the puck.
15 bar is a choked/stalled shot that isn't going anywhere and that generally you would not want to drink. This is the maximum output of the ulka pump when there is no water flow. When espresso is pouring, the pressure will be much lower than this.
Some machines have overpressure valves to limit the pressure to a preset maximum (My Gaggia does not, though it does have a safety valve on the pump).
2) The solenoid valve is a convenience. It give you a drier puck, right away, without waiting for the pressure to dissipate on its own. It is not necessary in brewing good espresso. This could be useful if you need to pull multiple shots back-to-back. I don't have one and I still manage to produce dry, easily knocked pucks. I just have to wait a bit -- the less that I wait, the more likely that there will be water on the *surface* of the puck.
Soupy pucks result from underdosed and/or overly fine ground coffee. Coffee explosions from the lack of a solenoid have been pretty rare and understated with my machine (e.g. I accidentally thwack the portafilter handle and knock it out of the group, which spits a bit of coffee on the machine).
One additional, indirect benefit of getting a solenoid Gaggia is that it won't have the annoying "antidrip" valve. This valve allows steam and water to escape the boiler, making it possible for the boiler to run dry if left idle long enough (simply run the pump at least every 30-60 minutes).
DaveDave is an Ottawa resident and Coffee Expert
| | Forum posting/replies are available to registered users.
colin
Admin Admin
Posts: 730
Karma: 19
Re:Are 3-ways worth it? - 2006/10/20 10:52I could not agree with Ottawa-Dave more.
I am using a Pavoni lever right now. It has NO three-way solenoid.
Come to think of it, it has no pump either!
If I wait a few minutes after pulling a shot, I get a marvelous dry puck.
Hmmmm. And how is that anyway? Well - like Dave said: If you do it right, you puck is dry.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
| | Forum posting/replies are available to registered users.
Saeco Incanto, in general, is garbage. We've had ongoing problems with ours (that you can see at the web link in my profile).
Have you had the machine serviced at all? Or just a call to ask if the...
Based on all the discussion and reviews, I am looking to buy either the 8 cup or the 12 cup model. Since the physical size of the units (other than the pot, of course) seems to be exactly the same, i...
Since you've posted in the $400 I'd say return the Breville and get a single boiler machine.
In this price range you can easily get an entry level Saeco or Gaggia, or a lesser known name like Moki...
Before saying too much...
remember our motto:
Coffee is a journey, not a destination...
I started out with a Multichef Aluminum boiler steam toy - I learned a lot on that little unit.
You ...
I enjoy espresso and latte and decided (admittedly on a whim) to purchase an entry level machine. I went out and bought a Breville Cafe Roma last night. THEN I did some reading and now I am question...
I just want to recommend dealing with Espressotec.
First of all, order early enough during the day and you'll receive your purchase the next. I got my Silvia from them. Later I ordered some espresso ...
Hi there;
I used this page to calibrate my son's Virtuoso for a finer grind. After the adjustment it would grind so fine that he was able to plug his Saeco Aroma.
Be patient though when doing...
Hi , I just joined this interesting site.
I received my new Baratza Maestro grinder last week. Even on the lowest setting (#2) my Gaggia produces a strong flow of espresso, not concentrated enough....