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gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/02/27 03:23Hi, Frustrated newbie here. After much investigation I purchased a never used but 4 year old gaggia coffee. I also purchased the starbucks grinder. My problem is I am struggling to get a good espresso out of this machine. On the finest grind setting with a slight tamp the gaggia is choking. Other times I am using a grind setting off of fine but the espresso is bitter and the crema is no good. I had heard that it takes some practice to get the gaggia to be optimal but this is ridiculus. I have followed the instructions on this site for using the gaggia machines, but am becoming frustrated and starting to wonder if something else is wrong (like the machine is no good).
Perhaps someone with similar equipment can share some suggestions for how I can start getting consistently good results. BTW I am using fresh starbucks coffee beans for the grind.
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There is no such thing as fresh starbucks coffee anymore.
Wherever you might be, get yourself some real fresh roast. Starbucks no longer cuts the mustard.
Really.
Colin Newell - EditorColin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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colin
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Re:gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/02/27 10:21rob wrote: Perhaps someone with similar equipment can share some suggestions for how I can start getting consistently good results. BTW I am using fresh starbucks coffee beans for the grind.
You are in Abbotsford?
There are LOTS of great fresh coffee choices near Vancouver.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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rob
Visitor
Re:gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/03/06 01:22Thanks for the replies so far...
No, I am not in BC, I am in Toronto.
So, I get some really fresh recently roasted beans. Then what? I still am struggling with the grind and the tamp.
I am thinking I need to grind less fine, with more tamp perhaps. Its funny because I have read on other sites that some people actually manually adjust the starbucks grinder for a finer grind for their espresso machines, yet on the the finest grind setting now (no tampering with the settings) it seems to be choking my machine and I am not tamping that much!
I had heard that the gaggia can be a bit picky, but this seems a bit ridiculus.
Any further help would be appreciated.
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The amount of coffee and the grind are more important than your tamp. I'd recommend avoiding tamping by more than 30lbs; given your experience, there is no need to do so.
If you can make it, consider getting some coffee from Sara at http://www.everydaycoffee.com (St. Lawrence Market, Toronto). She would be happy to demonstrate the kind of grind you are looking for and give you tips on pulling your shot.
To measure your coffee correctly for the double basket, use the following as benchmarks to start from. Every coffee is a bit different, but these are general rules of thumb. I use approximately 3 tablespoons of beans, which translates to something a bit more than 3.5 tablespoons of ground coffee.
After tamping, the top of your compressed coffee puck should be sitting approximately 3/8" lower than the rim of the basket. Don't worry about measuring it but use the following guide; with an aftermarket tamper (some $50) the top of the tamper helps you to judge the distance by nearly lining up with the rim.
The best way to check your level is to pack your coffee puck (dose, distribute and tamp) and then lock the portafilter into the machine -without turning on the pump- ! This is a dry run to check the puck level. Remove the portafilter immediately and observe your coffee puck. You want to see a faint outline of the center screw from the shower head in the puck, but you do not want any imprint or scraping of the puck surface from the screen . You also do not want the edges of the puck torn by the edge of the shower plate. If you see either of these signs, you have dosed too much. By overdosing, you reduce the available room for the coffee to expand during extraction, which might choke your shot. You also run a great risk of channeling from disturbing the puck surface, which would make your shot uneven and detract from its taste and consistency.
You should not feel resistance when locking the portafilter into the machine, caused by the coffee pressing up against the shower screen. It is normal, however, to see a screen imprint after pulling your shot. This is due to the expansion of the coffee when wet.
As for your coffee grind, you will find that the grind of the coffee varies slightly with the freshness of the coffee. Very fresh coffee can usually be ground a bit more coarsely than somewhat stale coffee. Different coffees will need a slightly different grind. You want a grind that is very fine, but with obvious particles and not reduced to powder. It should be finer than table sugar and has a softness to its feel and appearance.
I have a very inexpensive and worn bottom-of-the-line "burr" grinder which can still grind finely enough to choke the machine with some coffees. Part of the reason for this is that the grind size is inconsistent and includes a lot of overly fine particles.
The general procedure to sort out your grind is to take your fresh ground coffee, dose it carefully, distribute the coffee evenly in the basket, tamp once, pull your shot, and observe the extraction:
- If your extraction chokes or takes more than 27 seconds to produce your 1.5-2.0 ounce shot, use a slightly coarser grind
- If your extraction takes less than 25-27 seconds to produce 2.0 ounces, use a slightly finer grind
- Ultimately, let your taste buds be your guide. With fresh coffee, your Gaggia should be capable of producing excellent shots with a very thick, buttery, and aromatic reddish-brown crema.
There is a possibility of damage to the machine, the most likely cause of which is scale buildup. This could be impeding flow through the group. Try this and report back:
- Remove the portafilter from the group - Run the pump for a few seconds and open/close the steam wand to ensure that the boiler is full, without any air gaps. Make sure that you have lots of water in your reservoir. - Placing a measuring cup under the group (e.g. 2 cup pyrex just fits), turn on the pump and let it run for 30 seconds - How much water did you collect from the pump in 30 seconds??
On my Espresso, I pull just over 200mL from my pump in 30 seconds, from the bare group.
Let us know how you are making out!
Dave
Post edited by: dave, at: 2006/03/07 06:26Dave is an Ottawa resident and Coffee Expert
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glenns
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Re:gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/03/07 12:13Buyer's remorse? The first few weeks are the worst. Expect to dump a few shots.
Learning the skill/art/science/craft of espresso does not come instantly.
Stick with it. Re-read everything on this site about the Gaggia and practise endlessly.
Dave is right. Puck height in the basket is critical. Get a proper 58mm stainless steel tamper. You will have to grind finer or coarser to get the exact puck height and extraction time you want.
Given the same tamping force,a finer grind with give you a lower puck, a coarser grind will yield a higher puck.
Do not play around with too many variables at the same time.
if you run into further troubles, ask. --glenn
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rob
Visitor
Re:gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/03/08 01:46Fantastic advice, just what I was looking for. I will be following all of it and hopefully soon will be reporting back to you from espresso heaven.
Thanks for the further advice about the scale build-up, I will check into that. I was planning on descaling the machine soon anyway. Hopefully I do not have a damage situation.
Rob
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Update on my gaggia. I got some fresh roast from Everyday and it made a big difference. I am still tinkering with the grind and tamp but I did notice that I had been filling the portafilter too much, so thanks for all the tips.
I hope to get a decent tamper soon, I am still using the plastic one that came with the gaggia!
Dave, I did the pump test and my results were just under 250 ml for 30 seconds. I am assuming that is good news but would appreciate your thoughts on it.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can tell what 30 pounds of pressure on the tamp feels like??
Rob
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dave
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Re:gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/04/03 11:39lucrob wrote: I got some fresh roast from Everyday and it made a big difference.
Glad to hear it, Rob! Thanks for letting us know how you are getting along.
I did the pump test and my results were just under 250 ml for 30 seconds. I am assuming that is good news but would appreciate your thoughts on it.
Sounds fine to me. Your shots are improving with fresh coffee and experimentation?
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can tell what 30 pounds of pressure on the tamp feels like?
The tried and true method is to use your bathroom scale, only cover/wrap it in something clean first Practice tamping until you can do so with a consistent weight. The exact weight isn't really all that important, but rather that you are consistent about it.
There are exceptions, but there usually isn't much point in tamping more than 30 lbs. It effects little difference and could set you up for a stress-related injury, though that is more of a concern for a barista tamping all day long. You can tamp lighter if you want, though very light tamps might require expert skill and a preinfusing grouphead.
Everyone has a different tamping routine, but one rule that I would recommend is that once you have given the puck your main tamp, leave it alone. Trying to correct problems after tamping is apt to break seals or create an uneven density in the basket, leading to more problems in the cup. Big problems (or even little problems) may best be dealt with by knocking out the grounds and trying again, before they get wet.
Obviously, tamping once could be difficult with the undersized plastic tamper -- just do your best and stick to a working routine: possibly tamping the corners with less pressure and then applying a final centered tamp. Your chances of channelling are simply going to be higher with the plastic tamper, but developing a consistent routine will help.
DaveDave is an Ottawa resident and Coffee Expert
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lucrob
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Re:gaggia coffee difficulties - 2006/04/04 13:18Dave you rock.
Thanks for the response and advice.
Yes my shots are improving. I pulled a whole bunch for some friends the other night and the feedback was very good overall.
Yes my plastic tamper sucks. Bday around the corner and guess what's on the list??
I think I am tamping too light, so will work on my technique but not too much until AFTER the Bday gift arrives!
Whoa, preinfusing grouphead? I don't even want to go there but that just sounds wrong!?! Ha!
Rob
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Practice tamping until you can do so with a consistent weight. The exact weight isn't really all that important, but rather that you are consistent about it.
Ha!