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Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/14 17:09This thread discusses the Content article: Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C.
It is strange to go to a cafe and realize that you are being laughed at, which is what happened when I had the poor sense to ask at cafe fantastico if they would pour me an allongee. Perhaps its my European sensibilities, but I know coffee and I like an allongee. Not only does the coffee last longer in my cup...oh wait, I don't need to justify my taste. Too bad Fantastico are just power-tripping coffee jocks with a 'my way or the highway' attitude. I didn't realized the Mayflower had landed and that Victoria was the Plymouth Rock of the coffee drinking west. Grow up, guys. Its just a bean.
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colin
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/14 20:00I love the coffee beans at Cafe Fantastico....
that said, I have not purchased a beverage or anything even remotely unique to "me" in... what seems like a couple of years.
It is just not worth it for the attitude you get.
I had one of the staff screeching at me one afternoon -- granted I had kind of brought it on myself after buying a bag of "CAF" coffee and 1/2-CAF when they refused to sell me the same blend I had been buying for the previous 3 years!
I re-bagged it at the counter and the gal behind the counter went totally ballistic on me. We laughed it off after.
The problem at CF is. There are some really self-important people there (a very few) and some very normal staff... and the normal staff just whistle and roll their eyes when a staff member goes OFF on someone.
And dont get me started on Ryan. He is one of the smartest people in the business but does not appear to have a clue about the people he has hired.
As one other local guru reminded me:
"Ya gotta let these cafes do their thing... they are trying to make a living here.. If you dont like ONE cafe, then walk to the next one..."
Despite his bombastic approach to coffee, he is right. If you dont like the Nazi's at CF... move on.
There are better places in Victoria.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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colin
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/14 20:07Word on the street has it that HABIT plans to give CF a run for the money in the Attitude department.
Not surprising considering that one of the partners at HABIT was trained by CF.
I retract the above statement upon re-reading it a few times. HABIT CAFE is nothing like CF and apologize to Shane D. and crew for this comment.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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M Richardson
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/15 11:59Thanks for the tips.
I was just a little taken aback by the attitude, cause usually barristas are enthusiastic about what they are making you. Attitude isn't something people necessarily wear on their sleeves and can sneak up on you.
Funny you should mention it, I had a similar experience at HABit. Except this time I was the phillistine who asked not for an allongee but for drip coffee. Only French Press. The reason: bleached filters. Weird.
I will certainly find different coffee shops to go to; its not as though one bad coffee shop will make me stop drinking the black elixir.
Its just a snobbishness that I am not used to running into in such a way.
Usually the rivalries of taste are inter-cafe ones, or between customers of differing tastes, not usually aimed at the customers themselves. My sense is that the Starbucks style customer service, where they are trained in elaborate drink calling and can NEVER say no to you, has poisoned a little of the staff out here. There is just no reason to refuse to run a shot longer if you know what you are doing.
Regardless of this, your website has been informative about where to go to get a decent cup around here. Its nice to have such a resource, and thanks for taking the time to lemme know I was not being singled out at CF.
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colin
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/15 17:54M Richardson wrote: Thanks for the tips.
Its nice to have such a resource, and thanks for taking the time to lemme know I was not being singled out at CF.
Hey. Now that I am in my 40's, I find that I am slowly becoming completely invisible to young people.. and that includes a fair number of coffee people...
So pat yourself on the back when you get on their radar!
There are so many interesting places to get java on Vancouver Island. Some, like Coyote in Nanaimo and Discovery on Discovery @ Douglas and 2% Jazz are just SO Much better than the rest, you would think that the crappy ones would take a chapter or two from the good ones.
Yea. There is lots of good stuff here. Ignore the rest.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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scoobydoo
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/16 10:30I've been a few places around town. CF has been one of my worse experience so much so I haven't been back there for a few years. Habit I haven't been there yet.
I'm a regular at Discovery as I have had nothing but excellent experience there with the staff and getting a wealth of information from Logan and Sam.
I've been to JJ beans, Elysian Room and Artigiano and still Discovery is my favorite place.
Coyote I have heard nothing praises about, so maybe a day trip up to Naniamo is in order.
that's my two cents.
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colin
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/17 08:50scoobydoo wrote: I've been a few places around town. CF has been one of my worse experience so much so I haven't been back there for a few years. Habit I haven't been there yet.
The general impression I get from CF is: We are the best in the city. Enjoy our wares or get the heck out. Their roaster, Derek, is one of the friendliest guys in the business. So was Ryan - but Ryan is largely absent from the business now. CF is, by and large, run by the staff -- at least from appearances. All of the staff are unique. They are all cordial to me -- and only a few of them know that I have this website... so I don't get special treatment.
I buy their beans because they are some of the best. Discovery coffee is hot on their tail. More choice in Victoria will bring a more sobering reality to CF. That said, all the Quadra locals will continue to go there - as will the Cook street village residents that frequent CF-Cook Street village.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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Peter V
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/04/18 22:45M Richardson,
Though I agree with your ideas that snobbishness has no place in a cafe, I must disagree with your other opinions.
What is wrong with a cup of french press? It is prepared for each customer, guaranteeing you a fresh cup of properly prepared coffee, instead of your cup of "regular" drip coffee. The idea of being adverse to a bleached filter is quite common, especially for the West Coast.
Also, I might point you in the direction of a paper published in Scientific American that has a beautiful graph displaying the chemistry behind why a longer (in time) shot is inappropriate. http://www.illyusa.com/pr/coffee.pdf is a paper prepared by Dr. Ernesto Illy and has very sound quantitative data that demonstrates why 30 seconds is optimal.
To remain on topic though, I have just visited Discovery, Habit and 2% Jazz all in a period of 24 hours. 2% has always been one of my favorite cafes in North America, and will remain so based on the consistency and uniqueness of Sam's product and service. Discovery was awesome. It reminded me of Fantastico without the grunginess and my cup of Yemen off of the Clover competed with most coffees I've had from world class roasters. Habit was recommended to me by Sam Jones and I was thoroughly impressed. This place has skyrocketed into my top 5 cafes in North America for it's style and coffee. Very, very impressive.
I might add, if you can't handle the attitude, maybe let the coffee speak for itself and don't try to mess with what's presented on the menu.
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J Klymak
Visitor
Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/05/13 05:56Hello,
I completely agree about Fantastico. I lived in Seattle for 7 years, and if you want attitude, it is the place to go. But I never saw anything like Fantastico. I wanted a double Macchiato, but I was on a stroll with my girlfriend and had the audacity to ask for it to go. They would not serve me. They insisted that the drink had to go in a ceramic cup.
Now I understand, the drink is *better* in a ceramic cup, and they can do latte art etc, but seriously. A paying customer is a paying customer and its not like I was asking them to put Smarties on top or something. I just wanted to get a reasonable facimile of my drink and be able to leave their store with it.
Discovery Coffee has always been very friendly, and the one time I went to Habit they were fine. I also like Dolce Vita quite a lot, and had a nice coffee at the Union Cafe yesterday.
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I completely agree about Fantastico. I lived in Seattle for 7 years, and if you want attitude, it is the place to go. But I never saw anything like Fantastico. I wanted a double Macchiato, but I was on a stroll with my girlfriend and had the audacity to ask for it to go. They would not serve me. They insisted that the drink had to go in a ceramic cup.
Yea. I have heard this so many times.
CF and others need to know that they make we the consumers feel like stupid f*ck-ups when we try and stand up for our rights.
As a result of the CF phenomenon in Victoria, I only buy beans from them. I have spoken with Ryan, one of the owners, about this situation and basically got a "So, whadd'ya want anyway..." kind of reply.
Their attitude, overall, is: Our cafe is full of happy and albeit scruffy patrons. We don't need you.
Sorry but that's the straight truth as I see it.
Specialty coffee shops have quickly become more like Banks and Gas Stations:
"We know you need us. Now buy our product (or leave us your money and fu*k off for god's sakes!"Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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