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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/05/14 13:32A few $9/hr wage slaves at Cafe Fantastico seem to think their mere association with good coffee justifies being rude and sarcastic. WRONG! The coffee IS good but their "service" is CRAP by any reasonable standard. As a direct result, I now gladly pay more and/or make special trips elsewhere just to avoid them.
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Tamara
Visitor
Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/06/09 08:13Hi guys!
I'm coming on as a guest because I want to say a couple things about CF too. I worked there for six years and in that time I've seen a lot of people come and go, a lot of good regulars who are great people (hi Colin!) and really enjoyed making coffee. It's true we're OTT about our serving sometimes and it's too bad that so many people have been offended.
A few things I would like to say about the Rules (which cause endless consternation and uproar) and on rudeness:
The folks who tell people they can't have their espresso to go are not the ones who make the rules. We at the front of house can't change the house rules even if we want to, Ryan and Kristy have set them. We get yelled at a lot over them. Yelling will not make the rules change. Apocalypse probably won't make the rules change. There's nothing we can do about it.
There are lots of places in town that do drinks that we don't do (a long espresso, for example, or espresso to go) and we encourage people who really want those drinks to go to other places. There are a lot of reasons we don't do those drinks and the person at the till will be able to tell you. When someone wants something we don't serve, we're not trying to be rude when we say "You could try Starbucks or X other coffee shop", we're trying to help.
As for attitude, I can only speak for myself. I have been rude to customers, yes, though I have never freaked out on anyone. I do get tired. I have bad days. I work very hard. And I don't take a half tab of E before work, so I'm not artificially, stupidly, inanely happy and chipper. What you see is what you get. I know I'm flawed, I try to keep it under wraps because I like people, but service is hard and sometimes I'm not strong enough for my job.
Personally, asking someone to leave because they're yelling at me or telling someone the boss won't let me split that shot doesn't makes me a Nazi (speaking of tact and rudeness, this is a term I strenuously object to; we're not harming anyone).
In order to foster an air of professionalism before coffee got so professionalized in Victoria, Ryan and Kristy told us that we do not have to suffer any kind of threatening behavior or abuse. For myself (when I started) and many of my younger coworkers, this is the first job where it's been OK to stand up and say "I think you'd better leave" if someone is yelling at you. Yes, sometimes that policy is abused, but it's still a wonderful policy and I hope they never change it.
Lastly, I'm no wage slave and neither are my coworkers. If you want to know what we make, check out the "Now Hiring" sheet hanging in the cafe. It details our wages and benefits.
Phew, now, having said all that, I'm leaving Fantastico for greener pastures (had my last day yesterday).
I'm leaving for many reasons, but one of them is that I want to have more time to talk with the customers and engage with them. I can no longer do this at Caffe Fantastico, because it's so busy. I'm going to Discovery, and I hope, after reading these posts, I'm not a liability to them.
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colin
Admin Admin
Posts: 782
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/06/09 13:00Cafe Fantastico has changed the coffee and espresso landscape in Victoria in ways that the average coffee drinker will never know.
In one of the best forum entries ever, Tamara has eloquently summed up the dichotomy that is specialty coffee everywhere -- not just Victoria.
CF has existed, in some form or another since the very beginning of this web project -- and for me, it has been the benchmark to which all are compared.
Without appearing too hyperbolic, I tend to defend CF's eccentricities much as I would a fine French restaurant... as in when someone orders a fine meal and then asks for Ketchup.
If you want Ketchup on your pomme frites, go to Mikey'D's for heavens sakes.
If you want great espresso and coffee the way it should be served - go to Cafe Fantastico. If you want it your way - belly up to the Green Machine.
Cheers,Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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jklymak
Visitor
Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/06/10 08:58Hi Colin
If you want great espresso and coffee the way it should be served - go to Cafe Fantastico. If you want it your way - belly up to the Green Machine.
When I go into a fine restaurant, I know what to expect because I've been to fine restaurants before. I've never been to one of these "fine" coffeeshops before, so apparently I didn't know what to expect. Particularly as this one was disguised as a cart in a weird little food court in Cook Street Village. When I went to this little cart, I didn't expect to be treated like I was sullying the premises by having the affrontery to ask for a drink to-go.
Which was pretty annoying because apparently this "fine" coffee shop allows some of their drinks to be taken to-go, as there was a stack of paper cups of varying sizes right next to the machine. All the server had to do was say, "well we don't like to serve 'machiattos' in to-go cups, so I'm going to give you a very very very short latte in here".
Maybe it took a ridiculous amount of snobbery and iron-clad rules to bring Victoria's coffee quality up to passable. But its not justified anymore. Even the best French restaurant asks you how you want your steak cooked. And everyone I've been to allows you to have a doggy bag.
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colin
Admin Admin
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/06/10 12:31Point taken --
Thankfully, Victoria now has a variety of good coffee places scattered around the city.
Do what I have always done - vote with your feet... and your pocket-book.Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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Nick
Visitor
Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/06/11 20:36Tamara wrote:
Lastly, I'm no wage slave and neither are my coworkers. If you want to know what we make, check out the "Now Hiring" sheet hanging in the cafe. It details our wages and benefits.
ok, they pay $13/hr plus benefits which is very good for a non-unionized shop and the owners should be congratulated for that.
My problem was getting a direct personal attack that was so uncalled for that other customers and even the other staff member looked shocked. It just came right out of the blue - I'd asked where the whatever was and this guy comes back with the kind of thing that gets people punched in the mouth regardless of where or when! Inexcusable behavior, sorry...
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nickjones
User Coffee Lover
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/07/10 08:38Another place to try to avoid the attitude but get the goods is Beans & Greens in Esquimalt. Coffee by Discovery, made on a Synesso. It's a neighborhood joint with a welcoming atmosphere.
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colin
Admin Admin
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Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/07/10 08:53Beans and Greens has a Synesso? Vat, vat VAT!?!
I popped by one Saturday afternoon at closing time (3 PM this particular day...) and looked in the window. It looked more like an apiary crossed with a topiary crossed with a day care center... a totally child-friendly, green thumb friendly place.
Ironically, yesterday I heard from my "chronic whiner Irish-Canadian friend" who (whenever I see him goes on and on about SOMETHING he does not like about Canadian life...) He goes like this: ENTERING SILLY MODE -- Be warned!
"Ya naw wot's rung with Canader mate!? The coffee houses n' bars are noot Child-friendly! Ya naw how angry these makes me missus and me little one?!"
Anyway - his point is: Cafe's in Victoria are rarely child-friendly... and the reason for that is:
People go to cafes to get away from 2 things; work and children.
The very last place I want to go while sipping my Clover coffee is some child-friendly pseudo-garden shop cafe that caters to indulgent parents and their spawn.
For the love of god - what is next in this city, a DOG friendly cafe?!?
Arrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh! END SILLY MODE -
By all means check out B&G. I know I need to soon!Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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sam
Visitor
Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/07/13 07:05Hey man, I have two kids and I refuse to leave them locked in the car while I go to enjoy a coffee. I think that most people go to good cafes not to escape, but to engage. Not to avoid work and children, but to have a great cup of coffee. Obviously my relationship with Beans and Greens makes my opinion of their coffee invalid, but that fact that I have two children and LOVE to spend as much time with them as possible makes me happy that others feel children are part of our lives. Just because they are under 3 feet tall does not make it taboo for a cafe to want to have some books, toys and healthy snacks for them and to make great coffee ! Thank-you B&G for providing a venue for people with children (which seems to be most of us eventually). Sorry Colin, I had to call you on this one. Sam
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colin
Admin Admin
Posts: 782
Karma: 21
Re:Cafe culture in Victoria, B.C. - 2007/07/13 20:40Thank you for that Mister Jones.
I think you get the spirit of my comments in as much as this is the coffeecrew website and some of our stuff is out there.
Additionally, I was speaking as much to my new irish-CANADIAN friend who seems to find fault with way too much of my beloved Victoria.
Then again - I too should maintain a diligent sense of humor.
I may have been a tad too hard on the B&G -- and I am surprised to see they have a Synesso.
Naturally I will be checking up on how their treat your beans (and your machine!)
Colin is the Senior editor and creator of the CoffeeCrew.Com Website
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